low oil pressure / oil light on

[electrifying]

Hi Wayne,
I went for a drive yesterday to check the problems with the WVO fuel system, and found that my front filter is blocked up & sucking in air because of that.
The front filter looks like this:

IMG_7054 - front filter.jpg

I don't know how many micron it is, but assume it is between 2 - 5 mic.
This filter clogs up too quickly & doesn't provide adequate flow rate.

My thinking, since i have two filters in the back of the vehicle (a 20-mic & 1-mic poly-spun sediment filter), i could use this filter as a before-injector-pump filter:

IMG_7056 - larger 10mic filter.jpg

(same as what you have on your large clear tank). It is 10 mic.

Do you think this 10-mic filter, along with my other filters will be good enough, as i am getting brassed-off with those smaller filters getting clogged up. - i can change the filters in the back to 5mic and 1mic.
What happens if the oil isn't filtered properly (lets say 20-micron particles get through)?

Thanks,
Nick.

[wbski007]

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, lost internet yesterday, Hard to say what micron is safe, when I first started out some years ago using WVO I was just running it thru a stock Isuzu fuel filter after letting it settle a week or so, I had a Isuzu 2.2 in a 86 PU than and ran it that way for about a year and it still ran great when I got rid of it, I have no idea what micron the stock filter was as far as microns go but it seamed to do the job, I only had to change it every 500 miles or so. I stopped using the big filter like you showed me in your post, you know the one I had on my tank in the back, it seemed to glog to easly, why I don't know? so I switched to a duel filter setup I got off ebay the uses two Ford oil filters and they seem to do a good job filtering and last forever, and up front in the engine bay I use the stock Isuzu filter and just before the IP a Racor 2 micron filter, which I have to change about every 600 miles, some finer stuff must be getting thru the stock Isuzu filter as I only have to change it every 1000 miles or so.
They say if particals are to big they scoar the inside of the pump and damage it that way, but I really don't know, it must take a long time to do it tho. I figure the money I've saved over the years would buy 10 new pumps, and so far I haven't needed one yet.
The filter you have pictured is for petrol and they will not work with Diesel or WVO, that's why its cloging up so fast, Ive been down that road, petrol or gas filters do not work!!

[pig75]

wbski007
Could you resize your pictures to under 200kb

[electrifying]

Thought you might be moving the fire-truck over to your new settlement.
Have to agree with you on the big filter you used on the large drum, i did the same, using it as a 'pre-filter' before it went into my tank. It was extremely slow, blocking up easily, so i gave up on using it for that purpose.
The petrol filter that i use seems to work if i spend about 4-6 hours hand-filtering the oil through a very tightly woven sheet/silk . It took far too long, so i wanted to avoid using this method, as it was easier just to go to work for 4-6 hours & spend the money on diesel. Also, it doesn't last as long as the standard isuzu fuel filter (which used to do me about 500 km or so when i had my old set-up), only getting 200km's or so out of this one.

My first filter is just a silt-cloth to filter out any larger chunks in the WVO.
My second filter is three milk sock filters (one inside the other), which filter down to 50micron. This goes straight into my tank, after it has sat in a drum for a couple of weeks.
My third & fourth filters are the large blue filters in the back of my truck, 20-mic and 1-mic.
My fifth (final) filter is that small petrol filter.

Diesel filter is separate, as i can switch between the two fuel tanks. (this has come in very handy on main roads, where the vege oil system blocks up & i need a way to keep the engine running)

I think that if i were to change my fifth filter to that large 10-micron type (the one you used to have on the side of your drum), it shouldn't get clogged as easily as your & my original set-up, as it would be the last filter in the line, as opposed to the first filter in the line of filtering.
Even if i had to replace the injector pump, or injectors (both of which i would assume i could attain for $800 each), i would only have to do around 8,000km to pay for it! (like you say, you could get 10 pumps for the amount that you have saved). I am very tempted to give it a go. Diesel engines were originally made to run on rough fuel, and the Bosch injector pumps seem to be reliable for this purpose.

That's a good price for the 2 micron filters, how much was the filter housing? (i pay about $24 for the larger 10-mic filters, $10 for each of the big blue filters, and $15 for the petrol filter in the front).
How many km's have you done on those ford filters? Do they have a pressure relief valve in them? (these are probably equivalent to my two big blue filters in the back of my truck).

... The trick is finding a cost effective way of filtering the vege oil. And a way that works. ...

[wbski007]

THe filter housing I got off Ebay, its a racor 500, fuel water seporator, it cost me $105.00 USD including shipping, if you buy the filters at NAPA over the counter they get $21.00, but I found a place on line called fleet filter for $7.54, I buy 12 at a time and the shipping is only $10.00, so for under a 100 bucks I get alot of filters and like I said they are 2 micron. Idon't know if there is a pressure relief valve in the Ford filters or not, now you have me thinking, I better find out cause they seem to filter for ever, I do change them every so often just for the heck of it as I buy them on line also for $4 apeice, so there cheap also.
I pickup up my oil on the road from resturants using a big 12V gear pump, this thing will suck the chrome off a hitch ball, the oil then goes into the 55 gal tank I have laying on its side behind the front seat, then I add some diesel to it and from there I pump it into my rear underneith tank through the two Ford filters, the second underneith tank is just for diesel, I start and shut off on diesel at the beginning and end of each day, from the rear tank it goes to my switching valve, then a small 12V 5lbs pressure pump, through my heated fuel lineto the stock Isuzu filter then the Racor final filter, so I really can't let it get a chance to settle out on the road, but so far its all working with no obvious problems. you do a hell of alot more filtering than I do so you should be really good to go and have no pump problems at all, you have a great setup there, mines rinky dink compaired to yours.

[wbski007]

This is the pump I'm using for picking up my oil and this is the check valve I have at the end of my pickup hose, the clear plastic covering the end is cut off from the bottom of a water bottle, it stops me from sucking the crap off of the bottom of veggy tanks.


How are these photos Pig75, they should be ok now, I have my camara set to 640X480

[electrifying]

When i was purchasing my oil pump, i was debating whether to get a gear-type pump. I got a centrifugal one, Italian made, cost me too much ($280), but haven't had a problem with it yet. Not as much suction power as yours would have.
Good idea with the bottle on the end of the hose. I have a strainer that screws on, but no check valve. The oil that i get has lots of rosemary in it, so i can't stick the hose down too far, else it all gets clogged onto the strainer.
- those filters you get are cheap!


I had my last exam today, so now i can continue tinkering. yay - [there still needs to be a smilie with a party hat on!]
I will go to the hardware store & get some more plumbing parts to stick that large fuel filter into the engine bay, then test it. If all goes well, i will go for a 360km drive to Timaru to pick up a CB radio, as i am going 4x4ing next weekend with a club, and think it would be good to communicate with others on the trip.

I am also getting a boost gauge, shipped down from Auckland, then i can add a bit more power from the turbo when i need it. - hopefully EGT gauge will arrive by end of week from US. If not, then the week after .

[wbski007]

Seams like things are a bit cheaper here in the states, lucky for me!! I'll be off line for a few days I'm driving to Florida, leaving tomorrow morning and its 1500 miles so its a two day trip, will be back on line Saturday, CB's do come in handy when your running with other folks, I keep mine on out on the road all the time. hope you get your EGT and boost gauges, so you can put them on, Happy trails, Wayne

[electrifying]

I spent the night driving and sorting out the air-in-fuel-line issue(s) . Tightened up rear big blue filters (they are working bcos i undid them & they had a whole lot of crud in them!), however i think my pump is sucking in air some how. I am going to use compressed air on the rear part of my filter system to see if i can hear any leaks. Apart from that, i may have to get a bigger pump (you said yours was about 5lbs pressure (75psi?), whereas my pump is only 1lb or 14psi. When i am at idol, the pump keeps up fine, but if i travel at 70km+ the pump struggles & the injector pump starts sucking fuel instead of being supplied with fuel pressure. Will look for leaks first, that should solve the issue.
The CB turned out to be a no-go, as i tested it in Timaru, and the thing didn't work , so i am on to another CB radio, darn.
EGT gauge turned up , which was about a week from when i ordered it, fairly fast, now i just have to mount it.

I am off 4x4ing over the weekend, will be back about sunday, so hear from you then.
Enjoy ya trip!!!
Cheers.

[geeves]

Just a thought on running straight vegy oil. The rotary pump on our diesels is designed to circulate fuel to lube and cool the pump. Any form of starvation can damage the pump

[electrifying]

Good point, bigger electric pump needed then, as the current one is quite old. Haven't sorted this issue out yet, maybe tomorrow's mission (queue james bond music here ). Running on diesel till i fix it.
Geeves, are there any laws against placing a CB radio just above the mirror, as i am currently wiring everything to be in place of the centre front light (the map reading light)?
I am wiring it there because i don't have much space anywhere else. Also, i am placing the antenna on the spare tyre mount, so bushes don't hit it & break it off.
Thanks.

[geeves]

It does fall under the rules for interior impact so you might need to build a nice console for it to live in but should be ok. I have both my radios (prs and E band)bolted to a pice of plywood that is strapped to the center console. Works well except you cant read the displays while driving. Also means they can be removed quickly which almost happened a few weeks ago (waves half way up one door both side steps under the sand and rising tide)

[electrifying]

How is your vehicle coping with rust??? must have been scary at the time (knowing that the isuzu could drown).
With both side steps under the sand, it sounds like you needed another vehicle to help pull you out.

Now got the small Uniden pro530xl, the bracket fits fine in front of mirror, replacing the light that was there, but is on the wrong angle, so time to build a mount for it.
The rules don't sound too major, so ill wait till the next wof, if i fail it because of the radio, then i'll wrap it in bubble-wrap

[geeves]

That will probably work ok but just be safe talk to your favourite wof man before doing.
no unusual problems with rust but may have some tidying next wof. Always spend an hour cleaning after a trip to the beach and that day got the additional hose through the inside as well. It took a serious effort to recover.

[electrifying]

Thought an update of the radio installation would be appropriate:

IMG_7369 - AM CB radio mounted.jpg

I think i will get the UHF CB radio some time & mount underneath it (may wait till after Christmas, see if Santa gets me one (but i don't hold much hope for this)).
The truth is, I forgot that there were two types of radios available, AM & UHF . So, i got the wrong one, however i think it may come in handy sometime (talk to the truckies on the road?) Anyhow it fits nicely. I intend to put LED lighting below it to replace the old light, making it easier to see stuff in the cab at night.

A few photo's from my 4x4 trip (stayed in Alexandra for the night):

2%20DSCF0053.JPG

3 IMG_7076.jpg

The Bighorn proved its self, going where no snorkel-less truck had gone before, through all the rivers & streams. Other people decided to be cautious & use pre-built bridges to cross some of the rivers, but not my truck.
Eventually one of the rivers got into my truck via the air vents & door panels, but still all was good, just a bit of water in the engine air filter, nothing major.
We travelled down the back country roads, with dust sticking to the wet air filter, only hampering open-road performance.

What was called 'hilux hill', we stopped at & did some 4x4 training on 'failed hill attempts':

5 IMG_7109 - hilux hill.jpg

6 IMG_7114 - hilux hill.jpg

11 IMG_7152.jpg

Overlooking Clyde dam:

18 IMG_7203.jpg

The next challenge was a long steep hill, not all attempted it. Was rather easy in low-low ratio 2500rpm, you don't get hills like this on the open road:

23 IMG_7247.jpg

Fantastic trip, glad i put my mud tyres on for it. The Bighorn proved its self worthy.


WVO fuel issues:
Regarding the last lot of issues with air getting into the filters & engine stalling, i have done some more research, and found that i could happily supply 5psi to the injector pump without mucking it up. So i am looking at getting a bigger pump (14l/min) and attach something called a 'poppet' (not sure if that is the correct name, but it allows pressure over&above a particular value to flow through) in a Tee-junction so any pressure supplied to the pump above 5psi will just be sent back through the return line. This should ensure that i have adequate flow to the injector pump at highway speeds. I have read online somewhere that the injector pump at idol requires about 1L/min to flow through it, and my current pump is only just doing that. At higher speeds, the injector pump will have a higher flow rate.
I have got a fair bit of 3/8" (9.5mm) fuel line that i can install to reduce the friction, but may try a new pump first (current stuff is similar to original size, something like 5/16" (8mm)).

[electrifying]

Think i had to put this photo in too (i was caught), yes i forgot my can opener, so i used the next best thing, a hammer & flat-head screw-driver!

22 DSCF0076.JPG

And yes, the canned smoked salmon was worth it

[geeves]

Looks like a good trip. The first pic isnt macetown is it?
if you are going to be getting the air filter wet very often then invest in a cleanable filter ie k&n finner or similar. Paper filters swell when they get wet and dont flow well ever again.
Also do a calculation on the size of the combustion chamber If this fills with water then the piston cant come up any further so either the rod or crank bends instead. 8 times out of 10 this can be fixed with a replacement engine. My calculation was a desert spoon of water to mortally injure engine

[electrifying]

The first picture is just off Beeby Rd, on the Geraldine Flat.
On our trip we were about 75km away from Macetown, but did not go there, i am assuming there are some good river tracks in Macetown?

ok, calculating the amount of water that can enter 1 of the pistons, i get about 35ml, minus the room for the compressed cylinder air. Are you counting a desert spoon as 12ml or 25ml? I would say that 25ml would be fairly bad, bending a rod slightly.

I am going to purchase a new air filter in the next few days, so i will have a look at the cleanable filters, but a paper one may have to do for now. I like how the problem could easily be fixed with installing a replacement engine , may get expensive if it were to happen often, probably better off just getting a snorkel.


Anyhow, i replaced my blown headlight today (water got in during the trip in one of the rivers).
I also fixed my air-in-fuel problem by eliminating the return pipe to the WVO tank. It now re-circulates in the engine bay through a one-way valve, a filter, and a 'tee' connector to the inlet of the injector pump.
It now has the same amount of power as if it were running on Diesel (i.e. very little restriction in the fuel line), i took it for a run on the highway and up a long hill, and was no different to diesel. I also checked for air in the lines at the top of the hill, and there was none. This makes me happy.
Now i am thinking of investing in a 2micron filter similar to Wayne's after looking at another site showing gunk that had built up in the injector pump, fortunately none were Isuzu's. (they were saying that the oil may have reacted with metals in the injector pump too)
I also spoke to a diesel technician today who was kind enough to show me around the equipment that they use. He was saying that vege oil was much harder on injector pumps & injectors than normal diesel because it was rather dirty & did not lubricate as well. He also said that i could probably pick up a second hand injector pump fairly cheap when it does wear out, & it doesn't cost me much to run it on vege oil, so it doesn't matter that much. He also answered my question about filters, a normal injector pump final filter is around 2 to 5 micron. a pre-filter is around 10 to 30 micron.
A fair bit of info for only purchasing a one-way valve from him.

[turnturn]

How about "wbski007" or "electrifying" doing a bit of a write up on the process of using WVO?
Do's and don'ts, filter sizes etc.

[wbski007]

Electrifying, seems to filter his oil alot better than I do as I'm on the road alot and only can carry so much stuff to filter with, but between the two of us I think we both have some good ideas on burning WVO as a fuel and you all can gleen what works the best. I must however disagree with the fellow who said veggie oil does not have as good of lubrication as diesel, the diesel we have nowadays is way different than years ago, they have taken alot of the lubrication qualitys out of it, I think veggie oil is far better at lubricating the IP the strait diesel.
I would like to here more on the elimation of your return line electricfying? I have herd of people who returned the unused diesel right back into the IP instead of returning it back to the tank, but always wondered why they just didn't do that from the factory in the first place???
When I get back to Arizonia I will do a write up on how I burn veggie oil as a alternative fuel, and what I go through to do so.